WEBVTT

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Good afternoon to all who are still
connected,

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afterwards you will be able to
participate in the

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debate with the four of us, the three
members

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of the panel and the plenary speaker.

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Therefore, we encourage you, if you
cannot stay,

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to send us your questions, comments, and
suggestions,

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and we will forward them to you.

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In any case, if they are waiting, they
can do it in person.

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Well, the last presentation of the day
will be given

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by Professor Gonzalo Samar, from the
University of

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Zaragoza, who is a professor of
Contemporary History

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at that university, one of the greatest
specialists

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in the history of Spanish history.

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Director of the journal Historiography,
is.

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Among his works, his writing "Ideology in
the Spanish Post-War Period" stands out.

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Historiography. Contemporary history.

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History of the present.

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The break with liberal tradition or

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everything related to a book that Gonzalo

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published, I don't know, three or four

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years ago, about the Memoirs of the
Transition, eh?

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I have to say one thing about Professor
Gonzalo.

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Did it happen that, besides everything
else,

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I think he's probably the only specialist
left in Spain?

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Pure historiography, meaning that

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he dedicates all his time to this, huh?

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Today he is going to talk to us about
Hispanic liberalism in 19th-century

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Spanish history.

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Whenever you want, professor.

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Come in, Samar.

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Well, thank you very much. Huh?

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I think you can hear me. Mmm.

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I did well. Not very well, very well.

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Perfect. Thank you very much.

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Naturally, I want to begin by thanking
everyone

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for attending, both those in the room and
those connected online.

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And also for this invitation and at the
same time to

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congratulate the professors of the Rey
Juan Carlos

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University and the University of Santiago
de Compostela

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for the happy idea of ​​incorporating
into these conferences

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areas related to literature such as
philosophy and historiography.

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For me it is always a pleasure to talk
about this

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last subject, especially when I am also
given the

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opportunity to choose a specific topic to
close this day.

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Well, in a pioneering and highly valuable
book

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published almost half a century ago,
exactly in 1979,

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the Sevillian professor Manuel Moreno
Alonso

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christened the Spanish historiography of
the first

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decades of the 19th century, the
Isabelline

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era, with the term romantic
historiography.

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It is far from my intention to belittle
the presence of

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Romanticism in the historical writings of
the 19th century.

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Because?

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A fundamental feature of this cultural
movement was the

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evocation and insistence on national and
regional

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identities and histories, as well as
themes such as, for

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example, customs, folklore, the
mysterious, the exotic,

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rebellion against tyranny, freedom, and
revolutions.

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Furthermore, these are themes channeled
through a

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public use of the past that we can
consider modern, right?

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However, I intend to prioritize the
manifestations

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of liberalism and Hispanism, because
these, in my

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opinion, equally define both what Spanish
political

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identity was at that time and the foreign
perspectives. Mmm.

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Therefore, these premises can be seen
reflected in the culture,

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scholarship, and historical writings of
those years.

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But these topics will be the focus of my
lecture, which

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begins by warning that the word
Hispanism, which I use

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in the title, applied to liberal and
romantic historians,

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is only an approximation of what was more
of a Hispanophilia,

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a sympathetic view of Spanish culture,
because

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Hispanism did not exist then as an
academic specialty,

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which is more of a 20th-century
phenomenon.

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And there were many Romantic writers who
alluded to sympathy for Spanish culture.

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They preferred to use terms like
expansion

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Spanish nationalist in

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different terms from that of Hispanist.

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Exactly.

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To begin, I must emphasize that Spanish
liberal historiography

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was a faithful heir to the Enlightenment
of the 18th century.

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Professor Manuel Moreno Alonso also
emphasizes this point.

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However, we are talking about a fairly
modest official illustration.

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But well, it's the same thing placed
under the protection of absolute

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monarchy and stripped of philosophical
and theological controversies.

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In reality, the way of writing history
and valuing the vestiges of the past

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that spread among the authors of the 19th
century owed much to the previous

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century.

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Let us recall, for example, the early
role played by the all-powerful

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Marquis of Ensenada, who was minister to
several monarchs of his

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century in introducing the conservation
and study of so-called

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antiquities in the Royal Academy of
History.

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A few years after its founding.

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His instruction for the recognition of

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antiquities in Spain dates exactly from
1752.

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Or also how ten years earlier, in 1742,
already

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retired from his official duties, the
Valencian

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Gregorio Mayans y Ciscar, published
Censura

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de historias fabulosas, a writing that he
had

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left unpublished at his death in 1684.

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The jurist and librarian of the Court of
Charles II, Nicholas Antonio.

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This writing criticized for the first
time the myths

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about the origins of the history of
Spain, contained

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in what a century later, in the 19th, the
historian José

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Godoy Alcántara called the false
conditions.

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The publication of Nicolás Antonio's
unpublished work by Mayans

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serves to illustrate how the beginnings
of historical criticism were discovered

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in Spain.

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Because these spurious or false critical
accounts

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were not only part of the general
chronicle

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of Spain initiated by Florian de Ocampo.

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In the mid-16th century, they were also

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present in the first general history of

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Spain, which was written half a century

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later by the Jesuit Juan de Mariana, a

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work that was still famous in the 18th
and 19th centuries.

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This rejection of false critics and the
critical use of

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manuscripts, coins, inscriptions or as
they were called

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at the time, antiquities, is already
applied in the work

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La España Sagrada, composed by the
Augustinian friar

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Enrique Flores between 1747 and 1775,
which can be

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considered the first history of the
Spanish Church

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written with properly scientific
criteria.

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But if we refer to the interest in the
narrative of the history

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of Spain as such, the link between the
Enlightenment

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and liberal culture is still marked.

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It suffices to examine the reception of
the article

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"Spain" that the French writer Nicolas
Mason, of

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Morbidity, published in 1782 for the
Methodical

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Encyclopedia, which, as is known, was an
edition, as

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he said, of the very work expanded,
restructured and

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revised of the famous encyclopedia that
they began to edit in 1751.

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Diderot and Lambert.

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This reception can be considered a
remarkable example

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of the existence of a relatively new
interest in the

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history of Spain in response to the
negative image it had abroad.

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This attention was largely fostered as a
result

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of the reformist spirit that was felt in
certain

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intellectual circles, academies, economic

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societies, universities, social
gatherings,

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salons of certain aristocrats, and
newspapers.

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But let's see.

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In his article, Nicholas spoke of a
decline in the Kingdom of

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Spain, which he said had transferred the
wealth of the New

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World to other hands, and which was
attributable to factors

00:09:21.160 --> 00:09:25.160
such as—and I quote verbatim—the weakness
of the Spanish

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government, the Inquisition, the friars,
and the lazy pride of its inhabitants.

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Nicholas Mason's writing was little
echoed by the scientist and naturalist

00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:38.240
Antonio José de Cabanillas.

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This then resided in Paris in an essay
that he published in

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French in 1784 with the title of
observations of Mr. Abbé

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CABA in English on the article of Spain
in the new Encyclopedia.

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That text

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It was a compendium of information on the
history of Spanish culture

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supplied by some of the most important
Spanish scholars and historians of the

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time.

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It involved English, it had friendship.

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The essay found support from the then
ambassador in Paris,

00:10:10.520 --> 00:10:14.520
the Count of Aranda, and above all from
the powerful minister,

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the Count of Floridablanca, who ordered
it to be translated

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into Spanish immediately. A few years
earlier, in 1777,

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the year of the Declaration of
Independence of the 13

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Colonies, the publication of William
Robertson's history

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of America had also garnered the
attention of the Academy,

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History, and the monarchy itself.

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Charles III.

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Instead of the.

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The translation that the Academy had
planned, what it did

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was order, compose a history that would
result from that

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of the Scottish historian and put it in
the hands of this

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network Real Cosmography, where God is.

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It seems that Muñoz never finished this
project, but it

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was precisely thanks to his interest in
these topics that

00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:08.520
we have the first project for the
creation of a General

00:11:08.520 --> 00:11:11.600
Archive of the Indies in Seville in the
1780s.

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And a year before even the publication of
Nicholas

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Mason's article in 1781, the Jesuit Juan
Francisco

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Masdeu, then based in Rome due to the
expulsion of his

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Order from the Kingdom of Spain, began in
Italian

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a critical history of Spain and Spanish
culture.

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The work was a defense of culture and the
monarchy.

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For the information of Italian scholars.

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But more than spurred on by Mason's
article,

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he decided to continue it in Spanish in
1783,

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the year after publishing it in

00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.200
Italian, but he did not finish it.

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He only wrote the first 11 volumes, which
cover events up to the 11th century.

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But the work, the work, achieved
remarkable fame among later liberal

00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:03.960
historians.

00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:09.240
But perhaps the most forceful rebuttal to
Nicolás

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Mason came from the Valencian newspaper
Yanes,

00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:17.240
Juan Pablo Forner. In 1788, he wrote a
text entitled

00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:21.240
"Discourses on the way to write and
improve the

00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:25.240
history of Spain," which would not be
published

00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:29.760
until 1816 and was later included in his
Complete Works.

00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.840
in 1843.

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And in it, a very interesting detail can
be observed.

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.000
in this essay

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.120
Forner criticizes French philosophers for
their contempt

00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.120
for the Spanish and their customs, but at
the same time he

00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:51.120
recognizes the interest that the ideas
about the way of

00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:55.120
writing history that came from France
had, what Voltaire

00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.560
called, philosophical history or reasoned
history.

00:13:00.040 --> 00:13:04.040
And Forner also recognizes that a history
of Spain of this

00:13:04.040 --> 00:13:08.040
kind is needed, one that goes far beyond
the history composed

00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:11.320
at the end of the 16th century by Father
Maria.

00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.720
This affectionate-antipathic relationship
towards foreign

00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.720
historiography was a notable feature of
liberal historiography,

00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.720
but it had to adapt to the new political
and

00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.720
cultural circumstances, as we shall see.

00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.960
First of all, it should be noted that the
lost war of independence

00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:34.960
of the Spanish Empire, added to the First
Carlist War, aroused

00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:38.120
a pronounced interest in Spanish culture.

00:13:39.400 --> 00:13:43.400
Furthermore, the reign of Ferdinand VII,
with the exception

00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:47.400
of the Liberal Triennium, caused, as is
known, a flight of

00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:51.400
intellectuals to France and England, who
upon their return

00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:55.400
imported literary tastes and themes that
were flourishing

00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:59.400
in Europe at the time, as well as a
pronounced interest in

00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:02.840
the past, but to emphasize one detail.

00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:06.840
This fascination with the past was not
exclusively a Spanish phenomenon;

00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.840
it occurred in both Europe and America
and is closely related not only

00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:14.840
to the cultural memory of each of these
countries and the taste for the

00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:19.880
exotic, but also to the political changes
brought about by the era of revolutions.

00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.960
The story of the Frenchman Augustin
Thierry expressed it in 1835

00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.960
in an enthusiastic quote that said the
following: He said the

00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.560
story will be the hallmark of the 19th
century and the war.

00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:36.040
His name, like philosophy, gave its name
to the 18th century.

00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.200
In fact, this interest in history had a
very notable political

00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.360
purpose, in accordance with the building
of nation-states.

00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:50.480
The historian and liberal politician
Franco Horizonte,

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.480
a very influential figure among Spanish
authors, as we

00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.480
shall see, once wrote, regarding the
genre of constitutional

00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:02.480
history, that the importance of
historical writing was

00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:06.480
closely related to the liveliness of
politics and that,

00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.480
far from being a distraction or
amusement, it actually

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.480
served to ratify political theses, even
to promote them,

00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:19.080
that is, to establish political
forecasts.

00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.040
Here, allow me a brief digression.

00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:26.360
This attention to political history does
not mean that

00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:29.360
this trend was an invention of the 19th
century.

00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:34.080
It dates back at least to the second half
of the 16th century, with the

00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.080
so-called caciquismo, which was a current
of political thought

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:42.080
that remained in force until well into
the 18th century and which

00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.080
owes its name, as you observe, to the
fame acquired from the 16th

00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.080
century onwards by the writer of ancient
Rome, Gaius Cornelius Tacitus.

00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:55.320
In Europe, the interveners of capitalism,
the

00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:59.320
writers Justus Lycius, Hugo Grotius, and
Virgil

00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:03.320
Malbec, placed special emphasis on
aspects such

00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.320
as the importance of reason of state and
the need

00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.120
to look to the past to instruct the ruler
and also

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.120
to make human events predictable.

00:16:16.520 --> 00:16:20.240
Interest in political history was, in
fact, very

00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.240
notable among 18th-century philosophers.

00:16:23.880 --> 00:16:26.880
But they were not satisfied with the
premises of pacifism.

00:16:27.800 --> 00:16:31.800
To do this, history had to account not
only for

00:16:31.800 --> 00:16:35.800
the causes and the moral and political
principles

00:16:35.800 --> 00:16:39.800
behind the great feats and customs of
humanity,

00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:43.800
but also for the institutions, the
economy,

00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:46.920
literature, and religion.

00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.440
Eighteenth-century authors did not deny
that writing

00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:57.080
history was an art, as it had been
postulated since antiquity.

00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.160
But they also believed it was a science
or a manifestation of philosophy.

00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.840
In the 18th century, seven and philosophy
were

00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:09.840
interchangeable, which meant that the
historian

00:17:09.840 --> 00:17:13.840
should not be content with narrating
events, but should

00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:17.560
also ask about the nature of the progress
of those events.

00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:25.040
Well, Romanticism certainly reinforced
the fondness for stories about the past.

00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:29.760
The medieval adventure novels of the
Scottish aristocrat

00:17:29.760 --> 00:17:33.760
and writer Walter Scott enjoyed, as is
well known, great

00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:37.760
acceptance in Europe and America, and
also enjoyed great

00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:41.120
acceptance among historians and those
influenced by him.

00:17:41.360 --> 00:17:45.360
For example, the French politician and
historian

00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:49.360
Prosper de Bajante published between 1824
and

00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:53.360
1828 a highly acclaimed work entitled
History of

00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:57.400
the Dukes of Burgundy of the House of
Valor de Vega.

00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.160
He literally said, "I have tried to give
back to history the

00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.160
interest that the historical novel has
taken from it."

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:10.400
History, above all, must be accurate, but
it can also be truthful and vibrant.

00:18:10.840 --> 00:18:14.840
The work began with a phrase from the
famous Roman

00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:18.840
rhetorician Marcus Aurelius Quintilian,
which

00:18:18.840 --> 00:18:21.920
read: "Write 'Go,' not approving."

00:18:22.360 --> 00:18:23.480
This is the story.

00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.240
It is written to narrate, not to prove.

00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.240
The misunderstanding and displeasure that
this sentence provoked

00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:35.120
among French historians of the time, who
advocated for philosophical history.

00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:37.520
It is very significant.

00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:41.520
The author himself tried to put an end to
this disagreement,

00:18:41.520 --> 00:18:45.520
arguing that it was a phrase that could
not be generalized

00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:50.440
to all historical writings and was useful
for all eras.

00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.400
In Spain, only after the death of
Ferdinand VII in 1833, did the

00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.960
intellectual and political climate
suitable for the

00:18:59.960 --> 00:19:02.960
development of liberal historiography
begin to flourish.

00:19:04.360 --> 00:19:08.360
We have some previous attempts, also
heirs to the

00:19:08.360 --> 00:19:12.360
Enlightenment, such as the essay
published in

00:19:12.360 --> 00:19:16.360
French by the jurist and economist Juan
Sempere

00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:20.360
Guarino in 1826, entitled Considerations
on the

00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:24.760
causes of the greatness and decline of
the Spanish monarchy.

00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.440
As a Francophile, Pérez is shown here to
be opposed to the

00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.200
revolution of the years of the War of
Independence.

00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.640
But he also criticizes Nicholas Mason's
article.

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:41.160
However, except for his assessment of the
war of 1808,

00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.160
his account of the history of Spain,
which goes back to

00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.160
the Visigoths and reaches its peak during
the time of

00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:53.120
the Catholic Monarchs, foreshadows what
will become

00:19:53.120 --> 00:19:56.120
the liberal historical narrative.

00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:01.160
Sempere was an early returnee from exile,
he returned to

00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:05.160
Spain in 1826 and died in 1830 and did
not live to witness

00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:10.000
the changes that took place after the
disappearance of Ferdinand VII.

00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.680
Let's see.

00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:16.680
In 1833 the return of exiled
intellectuals began, who, as I

00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.680
have mentioned, were going to contribute
to the culture a

00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:24.680
romantic taste for the past and at the
same time accentuate

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.000
the importance of topics or values ​​that
were

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.000
then current, such as freedom versus
tyranny.

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Here we can give the example of how in
April 1834

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.000
a resounding success premiered in Madrid,
as

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:45.840
Mariano José de Larra recounts in one of
his most famous articles.

00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:50.400
One of the most important works of
Spanish Romanticism at that time

00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.040
was the Venice series by the politician
and writer who had recently returned from

00:20:54.040 --> 00:20:55.880
exile.

00:20:56.080 --> 00:21:00.080
Martínez de la Rosa, Francisco Martínez
de la Rosa created

00:21:00.080 --> 00:21:03.920
a drama set in the 14th century that
precisely evoked

00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.920
the theme of freedom versus tyranny.

00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.680
This interest in history can be seen not
only in the

00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:15.680
arts, but also in poetry at the same
time.

00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:17.640
For example, and in painting.

00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.320
Around the middle of the 19th century.

00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.640
But the same thing happens in the field
of public education, in the

00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.640
field of publishing histories of Spain
and accounts of events

00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.400
considered relevant, as well as with the
interest in documents and antiquities.

00:21:37.520 --> 00:21:41.520
The main promoters of this historical
culture were

00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:45.520
fundamentally the so-called public
writers, who were

00:21:45.520 --> 00:21:49.520
authors who combined politics,
journalism, literature,

00:21:49.520 --> 00:21:52.560
an interest in history and publishing.

00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:57.520
They were writers from the generations

00:21:57.520 --> 00:22:01.320
that had lived through the war of 1808.

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:06.960
Some had been born immediately before and
others had been born immediately after.

00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.280
During the reign of Ferdinand VII.

00:22:10.280 --> 00:22:14.280
And these are names that at one time had
a,

00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:17.800
let's say, a very important presence.

00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:21.800
I am thinking, for example, of the Count
of Toreno,

00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:25.800
author in the 1930s of a history of the
uprising, war

00:22:25.800 --> 00:22:29.800
and Revolution of Spain, which was the
first, the first

00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:33.800
work on the first history of the War of
Independence

00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:37.800
that was written, or I am thinking, for
example, of

00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:41.400
Evaristo Fernández de San Miguel, who
wrote a history of Philip II in the

00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.200
1940s.

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.880
Or for example, I'm thinking of Antonio
Ferrer del Río, who wrote

00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.880
The First History of the Communities of
Castile

00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:53.960
in 1850.

00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.080
And other authors whom I will cite later.

00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.480
So they are authors, not professional
historians.

00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.200
Exactly, but they called themselves
historians, public writers.

00:23:07.840 --> 00:23:11.560
But let's look a little at these
conditions in which liberal

00:23:11.560 --> 00:23:13.440
historiography flourishes.

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.000
In 1837 the new Constitution that
succeeded the Royal Statute

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.000
of 1834, recognized in its article two
the essential freedom

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.840
of the press and publication, which is a
necessary requirement.

00:23:27.560 --> 00:23:31.560
Two years earlier, in 1835, the
Scientific Literary Athenaeum

00:23:31.560 --> 00:23:35.560
was founded in the capital of the
Kingdom, which was actually

00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:39.440
a refounding because there had already
been an athenaeum during the Liberal

00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.400
Triennium.

00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:46.000
The Ateneo was going to play a relevant
role in historical dissemination.

00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:50.040
From that moment on and in the following
years,

00:23:50.040 --> 00:23:53.360
interesting changes took place in the
academies.

00:23:54.280 --> 00:23:58.280
In 1847, for example, the Academy of
History was the subject

00:23:58.280 --> 00:24:02.280
of a reform that, among other things,
broadened the scope of

00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:06.280
its topics and extended them, and I quote
verbatim, to the

00:24:06.280 --> 00:24:11.560
different aspects of life, civilization
and culture of the peoples of Spain.

00:24:13.080 --> 00:24:17.080
And in 1856, this Academy, the Academy of
History, promoted

00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:20.960
in Madrid a school for archivists and
librarians, which

00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.960
is a creation of the School of Arts in
Paris.

00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:27.560
In the school of scholars.

00:24:28.120 --> 00:24:31.120
In Spain it was called the Higher School
of Diplomacy.

00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:35.640
In this center appears for the first
time, for example,

00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:39.640
the curriculum of 1857, a table of
specialized or

00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.640
scholarly historical subjects, for
example, the

00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.880
subject of Latin of the Middle Romance
times.

00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.880
We read in Galician, or the subject of
Archaeology and Numismatics,

00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:54.320
or the subject of History of Spain in the
Middle Ages.

00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:58.920
Well, but also in 1857, the same date as
the founding of

00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.920
the Higher School of Diplomacy, the
Government inaugurated

00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.920
a new academy in imitation of the
neighboring country

00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:12.040
of France, which was the Academy of Moral
and Political Sciences.

00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:17.040
It included a section dedicated to
philosophy and history

00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:20.480
in relation to moral and political
sciences.

00:25:20.800 --> 00:25:24.800
Here, for example, the jurist and
economist Manuel

00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:28.800
Colmillo dedicated himself to reading
aloud the

00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:32.800
chapters he was writing of what was the
first proper

00:25:32.800 --> 00:25:36.800
economic history of Spain, which was his
history

00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:41.880
of political economy in Spain, published
in 1863. Right?

00:25:43.080 --> 00:25:45.560
But not only the academies.

00:25:45.560 --> 00:25:49.560
Likewise, the public instruction plans of
the Elizabethan era

00:25:49.560 --> 00:25:53.520
soon became a receptacle of interest in
the past and its use.

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.320
For example, in the General Study Plan of
1846, the government

00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:01.320
introduced high school and university.

00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:04.280
The teaching of universal and Spanish
history.

00:26:04.280 --> 00:26:08.280
A teaching that a decade later, the
famous Moyano Law of

00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:11.640
Public Instruction ratified and expanded.

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:16.920
So it is no coincidence that in the
mid-19th century

00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.920
the atmosphere was conducive to the
preparation

00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.920
of a history of Spain to replace that of
Father

00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.920
Mariana, published at the end of the 16th
century

00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:33.280
and with numerous subsequent editions and
expansions.

00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.720
In reality, the story of Father Mariana
in the 19th century

00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.720
continued to enjoy prestige, and was even
completed by authors

00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.720
of the time, such as Cánovas, Antonio del
Castillo, who in

00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.720
addition to being a politician, was a
historian with the verb

00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:53.600
Chao Fernández, who curiously was a
republican author.

00:26:54.360 --> 00:26:58.360
But the work itself seemed alien to the
canons of the century, and so wrote

00:26:58.360 --> 00:27:02.240
the one who was going to undertake the
task of replacing it, who was the

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.240
historian from Palencia, Modesto Lafuente
Samayoa.

00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:10.600
Here allow me this paragraph taken from
the introduction

00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:14.600
to the general history of Spain that the
source began to

00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:18.240
publish in 1850 in place of Mariana's and
which he

00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.240
continued to write until his death in
1866.

00:27:22.040 --> 00:27:23.400
The source wrote.

00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.880
The following cannot be denied to the
wise Jesuit.

00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.960
He was referring to Mariana and the glory
of having been the first Spanish

00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:31.520
historian general.

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.000
But the merit of having compiled, ordered
and reduced to a body of

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000
history the infinite materials that were
scattered about and the

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.880
honor of having erased the note of
neglect that our nation suffered at that

00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.360
time.

00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:48.760
But Mariana could not exempt herself from
participating in the dominant ideas of

00:27:48.760 --> 00:27:50.600
her century.

00:27:50.600 --> 00:27:54.600
The fact that he admitted so many fables
and tales, so many vulgar

00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:58.600
errors and absurd traditions, some of
such a nature that he himself

00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:02.600
was forced to make that famous confession
of pure ignorance, is

00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:06.600
certainly more due to the passage of time
than to his own fault. I

00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:10.600
transcribe concretely and faithfully,
making this fault more

00:28:10.600 --> 00:28:14.600
excusable, and greatly compensating for
the discretion of the

00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:18.600
modern reader if he were to compensate
for it with a philosophical

00:28:18.600 --> 00:28:22.600
appreciation of the causes of the events,
of their influence on the

00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:25.760
progress, decline and alterations of the
different States of Spain.

00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:29.320
But unfortunately, this knowledge

00:28:29.320 --> 00:28:32.320
cannot be acquired in Mariana's story.

00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.680
That this work of the Fountain that I
have.

00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.280
In a very scholarly work, it must be
remembered that Fuente was the

00:28:41.280 --> 00:28:44.280
first director of the Higher School of
Diplomacy.

00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:50.160
Well, it is considered the quintessential
liberal story.

00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:54.600
And this reference that the source makes
to the philosophical

00:28:54.600 --> 00:28:58.600
history that we have read,
characteristically illustrates the

00:28:58.600 --> 00:29:02.320
way in which liberal historians
understood the writing of history in the

00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:04.200
Elizabethan years.

00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.880
Well, in some circles this way of writing
history was

00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.880
known as "writing history towards the
horizon." Indeed,

00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.880
the most important politician of the
French monarchy,

00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:20.880
or royalist-on-the-horizon, was also one
of the best-known

00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.880
historians of those decades in his
country and abroad,

00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.880
because he was the one who specifically
introduced the

00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:32.160
expression "history of civilization."

00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.960
And it was,

00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:38.960
As is known, he was one of the promoters
of the Bourbon

00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.960
restoration in France and of the charter
granted in

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.960
1814 of the so-called government of the
just mean in

00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:51.400
the 1820s, when this just mean project
failed in France.

00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.440
In addition to contributing to the most
prominent liberal

00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.000
newspapers in his country, he perhaps
became one

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:02.000
of the most renowned historians in 1828.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.000
Specifically, he published a course on
modern history,

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.000
entitled History of Civilization in
Europe, which was

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.160
the result of his classes at the
Sorbonne.

00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.160
This essay achieved remarkable resonance

00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.720
in Spain and also in other countries.

00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.720
Specifically, in Spain it was translated

00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.720
and had three editions between 1839 and
1860.

00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.200
This course on modern history is very
important because it

00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:36.200
reclaims the genre of philosophical
history from the previous

00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:40.200
century, but at the same time it departs
from a way of writing

00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.200
history characteristic of German authors,
who had been giving

00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.480
priority to ideas and reflection on the
destinies of humanity.

00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:51.320
And Guizot says in his work.

00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:54.320
I will be very careful not to fall into
pure philosophy.

00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:58.360
I will be very careful not to establish
any rational principle and

00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:02.360
then deduce it from the nature of
civilization as a consequence,

00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:05.920
for there would be too many risks of
error in this method.

00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.480
Furthermore, Guizot believed that each
country had played a

00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.480
specific role throughout the centuries as
a repository of

00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.280
civilization, which encouraged the study
of national history.

00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:23.680
Logically, he was not referring to a
country that did not consider

00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.680
itself part of or heir to Western
Christian civilization, and he

00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:32.960
also maintained that France had been and
was the beacon of European civilization.

00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:39.520
Well, in Spain the story of the horizon
soon had imitators.

00:31:39.520 --> 00:31:41.840
In 1840 and 1841.

00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:45.840
The writer Eugenio de Tapia published a
history of Spanish

00:31:45.840 --> 00:31:49.840
civilization from the Arabs to the
present time, in which he

00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:53.840
focused on literary history, which he
considered the basis

00:31:53.840 --> 00:31:57.840
of the history of Spanish civilization.
At the same time, in

00:31:57.840 --> 00:32:01.840
the same year, the writer Fermín Gonzalo
Morón also taught a

00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:06.600
course at the Ateneo de Madrid entitled
History of the Civilization of Spain.

00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:11.560
Here his idea of ​​civilization went
further than Tapia's and

00:32:11.560 --> 00:32:14.840
extended to material progress, technical
and scientific

00:32:14.840 --> 00:32:17.840
advances, and what he called moral
progress.

00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.600
The course of Fermín Gonzalo Morón.

00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:25.600
He also called on the Government to
introduce reforms in

00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:30.440
education to improve, as he said, the
deplorable state of historiography

00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.440
Spanish. The.

00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:37.880
However, it must be said that this
impulse to write a new

00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:41.880
history of Spain did not only come from
foreign ways of

00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:47.000
writing history, but also from ways of
valuing Spanish culture itself.

00:32:49.040 --> 00:32:53.040
Modesto Lafuente himself confesses in his
general history

00:32:53.040 --> 00:32:57.640
of Spain when he explains that the work
served as an incentive for him.

00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:01.560
He says it was a story of Spain

00:33:01.560 --> 00:33:04.560
from the earliest times.

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:09.160
Written by the journalist and historian
the Spanish and chard

00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.160
Romeu, which served as an incentive for
him.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.760
Romeu's work was a work, a work published
in 1839

00:33:15.760 --> 00:33:18.760
and immediately translated into Spanish.

00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:23.480
Thus, the source writes the following: In
the introduction to the first

00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:26.600
volume of his history he says: The work
of a foreign historian

00:33:26.600 --> 00:33:29.600
came into my hands, in whose preface I
read these words.

00:33:30.320 --> 00:33:34.760
As for Spain, unfortunately there are no
Spanish names to mention.

00:33:35.360 --> 00:33:37.880
Spain lacks a national history.

00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.880
The historical genius has not yet
developed in that great and

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:46.760
unfortunate people who march with so many
anguishes towards their generation.

00:33:48.080 --> 00:33:52.080
I confess that these words, Lafuente
adds, ended up crushing my

00:33:52.080 --> 00:33:55.240
feelings of patriotic love and my resolve
to rehearse.

00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:58.880
If I could fill even a part of that

00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.880
lamentable void in our literature.

00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:05.960
But Romeu's story does not have the sour
tone of the

00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.200
encyclopedia article published by Nicolas
Mason.

00:34:09.680 --> 00:34:12.600
57 years earlier,

00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:16.600
In the prologue to the Spanish edition,
now by Romeu, the

00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:19.840
editor praises, for example, and I quote
verbatim,

00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.840
his philosophical criteria and style.

00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:27.280
He explains that we believed we could
perform an eminent service to

00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:31.880
the Spanish nation by translating such a
valuable work into Castilian Spanish.

00:34:32.600 --> 00:34:36.600
Again, as can be seen here, the mixed
feelings typical

00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:40.600
of Spanish liberal historiography
regarding

00:34:40.600 --> 00:34:46.280
histories written by foreign authors are
evident and have much to do with it.

00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:50.280
As I say, the interest in Spanish culture
that is

00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:55.720
awakened abroad due to the war of
independence, exile and romanticism.

00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:01.800
Hispanism, if we accept this word to
speak of

00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.800
the first half of the 19th century in its
origins,

00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:09.800
is in reality simply a current of
sympathy for

00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.040
Spanish culture and history.

00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:17.760
If you look at it, you get a picture of a
picturesque country of

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.760
contrasts, a mixture of different
cultures, which would have

00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:25.880
been capable of building an empire and
defeating Napoleon.

00:35:26.240 --> 00:35:30.560
But at the same time, in a way, he had
also been able to ruin himself.

00:35:31.600 --> 00:35:35.600
These chiaroscuro effects can be
perfectly observed

00:35:35.600 --> 00:35:39.600
in the circumstances and work of a series
of pioneering

00:35:39.600 --> 00:35:43.600
North American authors, Spanish
nationalists,

00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:47.600
as they called themselves, who are more
recently

00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:51.400
known by scholars as the Boston Circle.

00:35:52.080 --> 00:35:55.880
Well, I'm referring specifically to
George

00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:58.880
Washington Irving and William Prescott.

00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:04.560
These are writers who left Europe and
ended up in

00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:07.880
Spain, or who heard about Spanish culture

00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.880
and decided to write about its history.

00:36:11.240 --> 00:36:15.240
During the years of the reign of
Ferdinand VII and the Isabelline

00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:19.040
period, its influence became part of the
literary culture.

00:36:20.560 --> 00:36:23.480
Ignore that he was the first.

00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.480
He embarked on a journey through Europe
and crossed

00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:31.480
Spain between the spring and autumn of
1818, visiting

00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:35.480
Girona, Zaragoza, Madrid and Andalusia,
with travel

00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:39.480
diaries of Spain that have recently been
published, or

00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.480
republished in Spanish, in which he
portrays numerous

00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.120
customs and talks about culture and
institutions.

00:36:48.040 --> 00:36:52.040
Upon his return to the United States, he
was offered a

00:36:52.040 --> 00:36:56.600
professorship at Harvard University to
teach French and Spanish.

00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.800
And years later, in 1849, Taylor would
publish a

00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:04.400
history of Spanish literature, which is
the

00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.400
first well-documented one available.

00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:11.400
It predates Pelayo's and would be
translated

00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:15.400
ten years earlier or ten years later by
the

00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:19.320
Spanish historian Pascual Gallegos.

00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:23.320
Washington Irving, for his part, lived in
Europe, in Great

00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:27.560
Britain, mainly from 1815 onwards and for
more than a decade.

00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:31.800
His contact with Spanish culture came
from the United States ambassador to

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.600
Spain during the reign of Ferdinand VII.

00:37:34.040 --> 00:37:38.040
Alexander Everett, who informed him of
the publication

00:37:38.040 --> 00:37:42.040
in 1825 of a collection of documents
relating to

00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:46.040
Christopher Columbus by the historian, so
very marine

00:37:46.040 --> 00:37:49.640
and learned Martín Fernández de
Navarrete.

00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.640
And Everett proposed a translation to
Washington Irving.

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.440
But Irving decided to publish.

00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:59.880
In contrast, A History of the Life and
Voyages of Christopher

00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.880
Columbus in 1828

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.640
and that it is a work in which the
discoverer is praised for his

00:38:06.640 --> 00:38:09.640
adventurous spirit, for his heroic
character.

00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:12.480
But it does not appear to be associated
with Spanish identity.

00:38:13.720 --> 00:38:16.720
This, curiously, is the image of
Christopher Columbus

00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:19.720
that has been disseminated in American
culture ever since.

00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.320
In the 19th century, this book by Irving

00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:29.320
went through 175 editions in English,

00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:34.600
so its influence was, shall we say,
absolute. Right?

00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:38.760
However, it must be said that Irving was
a profound

00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:42.760
Hispanic philoso 1829 and it was a trip
to Spain, where

00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.760
he met in Cádiz the Adlers, the merchant
family to which

00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.760
the writer of My Love of a Man belonged,
who, as is known,

00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:54.560
signed with the pseudonym of Fernán
Caballero and

00:38:54.560 --> 00:38:57.560
was the characteristic estate.

00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.960
In short, for his romantic works, the
last of the three

00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:07.360
writers, William Prescott, also visited
Europe, but he never set foot in Spain.

00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:12.360
His contact with Spanish culture came
from a signor whom he met in Paris.

00:39:13.520 --> 00:39:15.640
In 1839.

00:39:15.640 --> 00:39:19.640
Prescott began his publications on Spain
with a history

00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:23.640
of the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella,
the Catholic

00:39:23.640 --> 00:39:27.640
Monarchs, which was translated into
Spanish in 1845, and

00:39:27.640 --> 00:39:32.080
continued those works with others
dedicated to the Spanish Empire.

00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:36.360
In short, Prescott's vision of

00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.360
Spain was very important; it earned

00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:45.360
him sympathy, but also a lot of
criticism.

00:39:46.120 --> 00:39:50.120
A recent author, a Hispanist named
Richard Kegan,

00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:54.120
has coined the term "The EH Paradigm"
because he

00:39:54.120 --> 00:39:58.120
considers that Prescott's way of valuing
the

00:39:58.120 --> 00:40:02.120
Spanish empire is precisely a guarantor
vision

00:40:02.120 --> 00:40:06.120
that Prescott himself contrasts with the
rise

00:40:06.120 --> 00:40:10.120
of the United States in the 19th century,
which

00:40:10.120 --> 00:40:14.200
has marked all of North American
Hispanism.

00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:19.280
I am referring to American historians in
the 19th and part of the 20th century.

00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:25.520
To contrast the rise of the United States
with the decline of the Spanish Empire.

00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:28.400
Okay, uh.

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:32.400
I end this lecture by underlining the

00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:36.400
thesis I have tried to show throughout

00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.400
it, that Spain in the 1919s, like other

00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.680
countries, experienced an unusual
interest in the past.

00:40:46.520 --> 00:40:50.520
This was made possible by an audience of
notable middle classes

00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:54.520
and intellectuals who needed to know the
history of Spain in

00:40:54.520 --> 00:40:58.480
order to organize political life,
constitutional Spain and

00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.480
participate in the cultural currents of
the time.

00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:05.200
This phenomenon, which has a clear
heritage from the Enlightenment of the

00:41:05.200 --> 00:41:06.560
previous

00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:09.800
century, always moved between admiration
for the ways of writing.

00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:13.080
History of foreigners and the need to
develop one's

00:41:13.080 --> 00:41:16.080
own history in accordance with the times.

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:20.080
And all of this under the influence of
the foreign view

00:41:20.080 --> 00:41:23.960
of Spain, which was not an unconditional
view, eh?

00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.440
The sympathies and criticisms from

00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.440
Hispanists were therefore of great help.

00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.880
Thank you very much for your attention.

00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.360
Thank you very much, Professor Samar.

00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:46.960
Well, let's proceed with the debate that
may arise.

00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:50.160
If anyone has any questions or comments.

00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:54.440
Uh. I wanted to thank Professor Matta for
his.

00:41:55.040 --> 00:41:57.360
For her presentation.

00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:59.720
And I wanted to ask you two things.

00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:01.640
First of all, uh.

00:42:01.640 --> 00:42:05.640
How are Muslims portrayed in this work,
if the topics of the

00:42:05.640 --> 00:42:09.640
Middle Ages, eh of the 19th century, for
example, continue,

00:42:09.640 --> 00:42:13.640
if there are mentions of the Reconquista
and then how much

00:42:13.640 --> 00:42:17.640
does the work of Manuel Fernández de
González influence

00:42:17.640 --> 00:42:21.320
the historiographical portrait of
Cervantes?

00:42:21.640 --> 00:42:25.640
That is, if you have seen that this
passes from

00:42:25.640 --> 00:42:29.640
literature to the collective memory about
Cervantes

00:42:29.640 --> 00:42:33.640
or is even reproduced in this way in
other cultural,

00:42:33.640 --> 00:42:39.160
literary or historiographical productions
and that is very good.

00:42:39.160 --> 00:42:43.520
Okay, I'll give two approximate answers
to the two questions.

00:42:44.240 --> 00:42:46.960
I think the first one is indeed one.

00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.720
It's a rather stereotypical view of
Muslims.

00:42:49.720 --> 00:42:53.720
I said "Moors" earlier in my lecture
because that's more

00:42:53.720 --> 00:42:59.120
or less the vocabulary of the time,
right? Well, there was a quote there.

00:42:59.120 --> 00:43:03.120
There was a quote I haven't read about
the Cervantes Society,

00:43:03.120 --> 00:43:07.120
but I'm not going to waste my time
looking for it now, where it

00:43:07.120 --> 00:43:11.120
does talk about their fiery character,
how passions and love

00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:15.120
affairs dominate all these Muslim
characters, etc., and so

00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:19.120
on, that they are very extreme in their
reactions, etc. And

00:43:19.120 --> 00:43:23.120
adding a little to what it says, not
much, but they try to

00:43:23.120 --> 00:43:27.440
describe their clothing a little from a
physical point of view.

00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.600
Is there any brief descriptive note
there?

00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.080
So I would say that it is a fairly
traditional image.

00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:39.320
But what is most striking about this
novel,

00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:43.320
the short novel and the corresponding
part of

00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:48.920
the longer novel is that, uh, women play
a fundamental role, uh?

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:53.000
Doing the king of Algiers, Asana, Asana,

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.000
Gad, Arnaut, Mamí, etc. That is, the

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:01.000
women who are usually Christian or even

00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.000
Jewish like Abigail, have the ability

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.400
to subjugate those characters, right?

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:12.440
Who in theory had the command in Plaza El

00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:15.440
Rey de Argel, Arnaut, Mami, etc., etc.

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.920
So, well, I don't know if that's enough
to

00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:23.920
answer whether I can say the exact
influence

00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.320
of Fernández and González on other
authors.

00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:32.360
What I can say is that this vision
conveyed by the novels

00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:35.440
of Fernández and González is in context.

00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:40.880
It's in the same vein, in the same tone,
in the same discourse, let's say.

00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:45.400
Are we talking about the 1970s, where
this vision of

00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:50.680
Cervantes exists not only in narrative
but also in dramatic works, right?

00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.280
A rather heroic Cervantes.

00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:56.600
Lepanto is always there.

00:44:56.600 --> 00:44:59.600
Obviously, right?

00:44:59.680 --> 00:45:01.880
A Cervantes too.

00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.080
Although today Cervantine critics and
biographers are

00:45:05.080 --> 00:45:08.080
qualifying this notion of Cervantes'
extreme poverty.

00:45:08.080 --> 00:45:12.080
Well, he earned his living not only with
commissions,

00:45:12.080 --> 00:45:16.080
yes, with his position as a tax
collector, let's

00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:20.080
say, but also with the purchase and sale
contracts

00:45:20.080 --> 00:45:24.080
that he signed, etc. and so on. Here we
get an image

00:45:24.080 --> 00:45:28.080
of a disillusioned Cervantes in his later
years,

00:45:28.080 --> 00:45:32.080
not a Cervantes who triumphed with the
Quixote

00:45:32.080 --> 00:45:35.920
of 1605, but there are his enemies
throwing

00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.920
barbs at him, etc., etc.

00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:43.720
And that is more or less the image
conveyed by other

00:45:43.720 --> 00:45:48.000
historical fictions that recreate the
life of Cervantes.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:51.720
Either the life of Cervantes in its
entirety or some aspect of it.

00:45:52.160 --> 00:45:55.120
If there are narratives, dramatic works.

00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:58.400
Well, the title of The Captive of
Algiers, The Captives of Algiers, isn't

00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.040
very original, is it?

00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:03.160
The one-armed man of Lepanto is also a
bit of a cliché, isn't he?

00:46:03.160 --> 00:46:07.160
And they all follow that line of heroism
of leading

00:46:07.160 --> 00:46:11.160
the escape attempts and, upon failing,
saying

00:46:11.160 --> 00:46:15.760
that he was solely responsible, etc.,
etc., right?

00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.840
And let's not forget that we are in that
time, the 60s and

00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:22.960
70s, when that canonization is taking
place.

00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:26.440
Canonization in a double sense of the
word, right?

00:46:26.560 --> 00:46:30.560
From becoming the quintessential
canonical author

00:46:30.560 --> 00:46:34.560
of the Spanish language and Spanish
literature and

00:46:34.560 --> 00:46:38.560
canonization, both in the sense of
presenting

00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:41.840
quasi-geographical portraits of
Cervantes.

00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:45.400
I don't know if Fernández González has
any

00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:48.400
influence, or rather, let me put it this
way.

00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:51.600
I was in this atmosphere, this, this
vision.

00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.840
Okay, thank you very much.

00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.520
Thank you very much, Professor Mata.

00:46:58.520 --> 00:47:01.440
Any further considerations? Any
questions?

00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:02.280
Uh, I had one.

00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:05.280
A question.

00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:06.880
Yes, yes, go ahead.

00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.200
They hear perfectly.

00:47:09.200 --> 00:47:12.280
And it was not in relation to the problem
of

00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.280
Fernández González's novels in the 20th
century.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.000
I wanted to comment, I think, because I
find it quite an

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:25.840
interesting topic that the case of the
captives of Algiers is not unique, eh?

00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.880
I mean, for example, I have members here
who are starting to open one of Fernández

00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.520
y González's most famous works in a
20th-century edition, and in this

00:47:32.520 --> 00:47:33.880
edition,

00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:37.720
for example, it says that the novel at
the end continues in another one called

00:47:37.720 --> 00:47:39.640
The Bastard of Castile, huh?

00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:41.800
I don't have the one about the bastard of
Castile here, but I know which one it is.

00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:45.800
I've read both of them and what they
really do is take the same

00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:49.600
novel within Sanabria and divide it into
two parts, right?

00:47:49.600 --> 00:47:52.880
The thing is that half of it changes the
title, for example, El

00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.880
Cid Campeador is also a novel that has
been quite reworked.

00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.000
The original novel was titled Cid,
Rodrigo de Vivar and consisted of two

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.560
volumes of 700 pages.

00:48:00.560 --> 00:48:04.560
However, the 20th-century edition is

00:48:04.560 --> 00:48:08.920
only 238 pages long and omits a lot of
passages.

00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:13.200
Others I rework into other phrases, I
also change them to make it much shorter.

00:48:13.200 --> 00:48:17.200
So I'm not sure to what extent The
Captives of Algiers is a lost

00:48:17.200 --> 00:48:21.200
novel by Francis González that was
rescued in the 20th century

00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:25.000
or simply a reworking of the second half
of The Prince of

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.000
Wits, by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.000
I think that's it, that it's a reworking
of the second half, but because in the

00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:35.040
context of the 20th century, texts were
hardly respected; sometimes they earned

00:48:35.040 --> 00:48:36.560
the title.

00:48:36.560 --> 00:48:39.560
I have another one here, which is the
Oath of Santa Gadea.

00:48:39.680 --> 00:48:41.920
This novel, The Loves of Alfonso, is
really this.

00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:45.640
The thing is, the title was changed and
the content was also changed to make it

00:48:45.640 --> 00:48:47.520
much shorter, right?

00:48:47.560 --> 00:48:51.560
I don't know to what extent, uh, this
novel about the future of

00:48:51.560 --> 00:48:55.560
Algiers can respond to this trend of
reworking, adjusting and

00:48:55.560 --> 00:48:59.280
generating second parts where there are
none, or if we might actually be facing a

00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.160
lost text.

00:49:01.160 --> 00:49:03.400
Because that interests me a lot. If that
were the case.

00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:06.920
But if it's part of the trend, well,
we'll have a different comment.

00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:08.080
I don't know, huh?

00:49:08.080 --> 00:49:09.120
What do you think about that?

00:49:09.120 --> 00:49:12.120
In that sense, what you've told me is
very interesting.

00:49:12.160 --> 00:49:16.000
I had been thinking of asking you if you
had any information about this novel.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:20.120
Well, time has passed me by, and well,
it'll come up in the debate, eh?

00:49:20.120 --> 00:49:24.120
Ferreras' catalogue in the 1979 edition
and in the revamped

00:49:24.120 --> 00:49:28.120
2010 edition mentions the infamous area
of ​​Castilla la

00:49:28.120 --> 00:49:32.120
la Tura with an error, the oath of Santa
Gadea, the lord of

00:49:32.120 --> 00:49:36.120
Ariza, the return of Don Juan, the
bastard of the castle,

00:49:36.120 --> 00:49:40.120
the bell of Huesca, the captives of
Algiers and the count

00:49:40.120 --> 00:49:44.120
of Villamediana as works published by
Editorial Tesoro

00:49:44.120 --> 00:49:48.120
or Ediciones Siglo 20, for which we do
not have the

00:49:48.120 --> 00:49:52.240
corresponding text from the time of
Fernández and González.

00:49:52.240 --> 00:49:54.160
Look at what you said.

00:49:54.160 --> 00:49:58.160
Mmm, it leads me to something I thought
about the other day as a hypothesis

00:49:58.160 --> 00:50:02.160
but that I didn't put in my presentation,
and thinking about the possibility,

00:50:02.160 --> 00:50:05.680
otherwise, I would have been the editor
of the 20th century.

00:50:06.240 --> 00:50:10.240
I don't know if that's what you meant,
and yes, the novel changes

00:50:10.240 --> 00:50:14.240
completely when it's extracted,
summarized, etc. You didn't mention

00:50:14.240 --> 00:50:19.120
it in my presentation, but it crossed my
mind that that possibility might exist.

00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:25.360
So I can't answer that just because, but.

00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:29.360
But on the other hand, we have an
argument that could weigh against

00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.360
it, and that is that with the One-Armed
Man of Lepanto, which is

00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:37.360
1/1 of which this is the second
continuation, there is indeed a

00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:41.040
standalone novel, doesn't that mean
anything, right?

00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:45.480
So, well, maybe I'm talking about a
hypothetical 19th-century

00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.480
edition of this text by Fernández de
González, which didn't

00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.520
exist, which didn't exist as a book or
which might

00:50:52.520 --> 00:50:55.520
have existed as a serial in some
newspaper.

00:50:55.520 --> 00:51:00.040
And no, no, that publication has not been
emptied and we don't have the data.

00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:03.600
No, I can't, I can't be more nuanced

00:51:03.600 --> 00:51:06.600
or more precise, huh?

00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:10.640
We have to read the text in this 1954
edition.

00:51:10.640 --> 00:51:14.640
No? It is also possible that the first
half of The Prince of Wits

00:51:14.640 --> 00:51:18.640
was reissued under the title The
One-Armed Man of Lepanto, a

00:51:18.640 --> 00:51:22.360
title already used by another novel by
Fernando González.

00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:24.600
But, hey, it happens very often.

00:51:24.600 --> 00:51:27.560
For example, what you mentioned earlier
about La Campana de Huesca is actually

00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:30.560
another novel by Fernando González
entitled Obispo, Casado y Rey.

00:51:30.560 --> 00:51:34.320
The thing is, there's a novel by Cánovas
del Castillo called The Bell of Huesca.

00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:37.920
Then, with some title, the famous one
would change his title.

00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:41.920
That may be the key, that what was
actually published by Editorial Tesoro as

00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:45.120
the Manco de Lepanto is the first half of
the Prince of Wits.

00:51:45.120 --> 00:51:47.640
What we would have to see is the text of
"de para".

00:51:47.640 --> 00:51:52.120
I need to continue delving deeper into
the comparison of short novels with the.

00:51:52.120 --> 00:51:54.720
With the long, but.

00:51:54.720 --> 00:51:58.120
But hey, it's just a hypothesis that
crossed my mind the other day, right?

00:51:58.160 --> 00:52:02.160
Maybe I'm looking for a ghost and it was
an editorial practice

00:52:02.160 --> 00:52:05.720
not from the 19th century, but from the
mid-20th century.

00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:09.920
It would be very interesting, it would be
very interesting,

00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:15.400
well, to be able to say something more
concrete about this. Wouldn't it?

00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:18.800
What is clear is that not even the
bibliography you provide.

00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:19.800
You think?

00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.800
I borrow the NIN, which is Ferreras, etc.
The databases,

00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:27.800
the National Library, the collective
catalog of

00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.800
Spanish bibliographic heritage, etc.
Nowhere does

00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.520
a record appear for a 19th-century
edition of a

00:52:35.520 --> 00:52:38.520
book that is The Captives of Algiers.

00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:42.440
And that's all I can say for sure.

00:52:43.680 --> 00:52:45.600
Thank you both very much.

00:52:45.600 --> 00:52:46.440
The teacher passes Mar.

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:47.920
I don't know if you have any questions.

00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:50.200
Yes, yes, well. Mmm.

00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:53.080
I wanted to make a comment, huh? Mmm.

00:52:53.080 --> 00:52:57.080
Because, somewhat in connection with what
has been said

00:52:57.080 --> 00:53:02.520
about the reconquest, the treatment of
the reconquest was the following.

00:53:02.520 --> 00:53:05.320
And that's because, uh,

00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:07.760
uh, in the 19th century the.

00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:11.920
Indeed, the term Reconquista is a term
created in the 19th century.

00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:15.040
although uh uh.

00:53:15.040 --> 00:53:19.040
The idea itself dates back to the story
of Juan de

00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.040
Mariana, but I wanted to say that in the
19th century,

00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:26.720
the authors, the scholars of the 19th
century,

00:53:26.720 --> 00:53:29.720
had a great interest in Arab culture.
Mhm.

00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.280
And in fact, at the Academy of History, a
school called the

00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:38.360
School of Analysts was created, which was
founded by... By...

00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:41.840
One of the great Spanish explorers was
Pascual Gaitán.

00:53:42.760 --> 00:53:46.760
The school mainly took shape in the last
decades of the 19th century,

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:50.240
which was when Cánovas del Castillo
reorganized it.

00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:54.640
But this interest in Arab culture dates
back to the 18th century

00:53:54.640 --> 00:53:58.640
and already, for example, the director of
the Academy of

00:53:58.640 --> 00:54:02.640
History, one of the first, but Rodríguez
de Campomanes,

00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:07.520
minister of Charles III, was very
interested in Arab culture and then, mmm.

00:54:07.520 --> 00:54:11.520
In the histories of Spain, references to
the importance of Arab

00:54:11.520 --> 00:54:14.760
culture in the Middle Ages appear
continuously.

00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:16.760
On the contrary, on the contrary.

00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:19.880
Uh. Contrast this with the idea of ​​the

00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:22.880
Reconquista, which is a political
category. Mhm.

00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:25.880
So, that double situation arises
somewhat.

00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:29.880
On the one hand, praise for Arab culture
and on the other

00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:33.880
hand, the idea that the Moors, in
quotation marks, as they

00:54:33.880 --> 00:54:38.520
were called in the 19th century, were a
kind of invading foreigners.

00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:41.800
The two things can coexist.

00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:47.760
Yes, Professor Huertas, I simply

00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:51.760
wanted to bring up an anecdote about

00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.760
the debate that Professor Mata and

00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:58.840
Javier Muñoz were having.

00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:03.440
And it's that, uh, when I was listening

00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:07.440
to them I was realizing that back when I

00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:11.440
was 15, when I was working on El Cid, in

00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:14.720
'19 and '20, the appearance of

00:55:14.720 --> 00:55:17.720
the supernatural a little bit.

00:55:18.080 --> 00:55:22.080
One of my first jobs when I was an intern
and ignorant,

00:55:22.080 --> 00:55:26.080
uh, I was reading The Fury of the Oath of
Santa Gadea

00:55:26.080 --> 00:55:30.080
and recently I was revisiting the
character of Elvira,

00:55:30.080 --> 00:55:33.600
no longer, not so young but just as
ignorant

00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:36.520
I didn't read the

00:55:36.520 --> 00:55:40.520
The loves of the Wise King and I hadn't
realized they were

00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:44.520
the same, the same work, of course, from
reading one to

00:55:44.520 --> 00:55:48.520
the other time had passed, and you're not
handling both

00:55:48.520 --> 00:55:52.520
at the same time and now reflecting or
taking advantage

00:55:52.520 --> 00:55:56.520
of the reflections of these two
colleagues, well, one

00:55:56.520 --> 00:56:00.520
realizes that one had lost that notion,
but I think it's

00:56:00.520 --> 00:56:04.520
very interesting precisely because of
what we were

00:56:04.520 --> 00:56:08.520
talking about this morning, about
everything that

00:56:08.520 --> 00:56:12.520
remains to be done in the historical
novel of the 19th

00:56:12.520 --> 00:56:16.520
century, about everything that remains to
be reviewed

00:56:16.520 --> 00:56:20.520
and that it seems like a novel that has
been left, that has

00:56:20.520 --> 00:56:24.520
been left aside, let's be honest, that
sometimes it's

00:56:24.520 --> 00:56:28.520
hard, it's hard, it's thankless to read
Fernández

00:56:28.520 --> 00:56:32.920
González, Ortega, to read those long
novels, endless serials and so on.

00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:35.880
It's not always easy, but it's true that
it's good, huh?

00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.880
In this textual transmission, the work of
an editor

00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:43.880
has been done, that is, there is still
much to uncover

00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:47.880
and much to investigate, and well, I
celebrate that

00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:51.880
an archivist like Javier is doing it and
the good

00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.880
work of Professor Mata, whose studies of
the

00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:59.880
historical novel are known by all, cited
by all,

00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:03.880
and references in the studies on the
subject, well,

00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:07.880
may he continue working with that novel
and not lose

00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.040
continuity in a field that I believe
deserves it.

00:57:12.040 --> 00:57:12.760
It's worth it.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:16.880
Thank you so much.

00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:19.920
I usually say, to keep things a bit
anecdotal, right?

00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:23.960
My literary taste was ruined by the
height of the

00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:27.960
years 91, 92, 93, reading all these
novels by

00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:31.240
Ortega, Parreño, Fernández and González.

00:57:31.600 --> 00:57:34.600
Although there are some worthwhile
titles, indeed.

00:57:34.720 --> 00:57:38.720
But when I studied the Spanish romantic
historical

00:57:38.720 --> 00:57:42.720
novel, mmm, I align myself with the
criticism that says

00:57:42.720 --> 00:57:46.720
that more than an importance in terms of
its literary

00:57:46.720 --> 00:57:50.720
quality, all these hundreds of titles,
which Javier

00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:54.080
has also said very well, I think that it
is not

00:57:54.080 --> 00:57:57.080
the only novelistic trend of the 19th
century.

00:57:57.080 --> 00:57:59.680
Between the 1930s and 1970s, to give an
example.

00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:02.960
There are other trends, but this is the
most important one.

00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:05.200
That's also clear.

00:58:05.200 --> 00:58:09.480
Did these historical novels revive the
novel genre in Spain?

00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:11.120
No? And many.

00:58:11.120 --> 00:58:15.120
Either a couple or three generations of
Spaniards got

00:58:15.120 --> 00:58:18.520
used to, or got used to again, reading
novels.

00:58:18.720 --> 00:58:20.680
Not with these titles?

00:58:20.680 --> 00:58:23.960
Hmm. More than its importance in terms of
literary

00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:26.960
quality, we can always salvage titles.

00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.960
The Lord of Bembibre, El Doncel, etc.,
eh?

00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:33.520
The importance is sociological, I
believe.

00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:38.480
I'm not the one saying it, it's just the
critics, obviously, and whenever

00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:42.360
I talk to students about 19th-century
historical novels I like to

00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:45.360
remind them of something that I think
José F. said.

00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:46.360
Montesinos.

00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:49.480
José Fernández Montesinos, who is At that

00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:52.480
moment a mechanism occurs that did not
exist.

00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:56.040
No, because the country's historical
political circumstances didn't allow it.

00:58:56.040 --> 00:58:57.840
Right?

00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:01.840
Well, there are people who want to read
historical novels, there are

00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:05.840
publishers who publish those historical
novels, and as they sell and are

00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:09.840
successful, the writers continue writing
historical novels, and that

00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:13.840
circle, that circuit, that little
mechanism is created: someone writes,

00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:17.840
someone publishes, someone reads, someone
else reads, someone else

00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.840
continues writing, someone else continues
reading, someone else continues

00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:25.840
publishing, and that mechanism, which
didn't exist before, is in some way

00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.640
the responsibility of these authors who
generally imitate Walter Scott.

00:59:29.640 --> 00:59:32.920
No, because writing in the style of
Walter Scott practically

00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:35.920
becomes a guarantee of publishing
success.

00:59:36.040 --> 00:59:37.480
In those. In those decades.

00:59:41.600 --> 00:59:44.600
Yes, well thank you very much, professor.

00:59:44.840 --> 00:59:46.120
Professor Mata.

00:59:46.120 --> 00:59:49.320
Well, I can't resist asking Professor

00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:52.320
Pasa Mar about something too.

00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:54.600
I think, well, it's a bit of a blow.

00:59:54.600 --> 00:59:57.160
I hope I don't break any glass, okay?

00:59:57.160 --> 01:00:00.680
My question is taking advantage of your
knowledge and the fact that you are a

01:00:00.680 --> 01:00:02.440
great role model.

01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:05.840
Undoubtedly in the studies on
historiography.

01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:10.400
If the historical novel mmm romantic or
romantic

01:00:10.400 --> 01:00:14.400
in romanticism speaking of what I was
saying about

01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:18.400
caciquismo which I understand by mmm
well, within

01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:22.400
my ignorance, that could disappear or
could be

01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.880
greatly mitigated with the enlightenment
in the 18th century.

01:00:28.080 --> 01:00:32.080
In some ways, the romantic historical
novel could reconcile

01:00:32.080 --> 01:00:36.080
the demand for positivist truth with, uh,
with that need

01:00:36.080 --> 01:00:40.080
for myth, for drama, for psychology,
somewhat seeing those

01:00:40.080 --> 01:00:44.080
possible continuities that exist of
currents that, well,

01:00:44.080 --> 01:00:48.080
we have always studied that perhaps are
born in a specific

01:00:48.080 --> 01:00:52.080
year, then disappear, but I think that is
something that

01:00:52.080 --> 01:00:55.560
has also become evident in this first
one.

01:00:55.560 --> 01:00:58.600
In these first sessions of the
conference, there

01:00:58.600 --> 01:01:01.600
are many continuities, and well, there
are.

01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:05.680
Well, I don't know if that's perhaps a
purely theoretical,

01:01:05.680 --> 01:01:08.680
reflective exercise, but I'm throwing
that stone out there.

01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:11.800
And... And

01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:13.200
Well, uh?

01:01:13.200 --> 01:01:17.200
Caciquismo is fundamentally a political

01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:21.200
doctrine, a political doctrine that, uh,
that

01:01:21.200 --> 01:01:25.200
fundamentally exalts the State and raises
the

01:01:25.200 --> 01:01:28.960
need to study, let's say, the State
historically.

01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:32.720
In reality, tacticism was nothing more
than the application of Machiavelli's

01:01:32.720 --> 01:01:34.400
doctrine.

01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:41.320
Hmm. Let's say because of the
Inquisition's condemnation, huh?

01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:44.320
It could not be quoted and therefore the
tacit was cited.

01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.360
So, basically it's a political doctrine,
huh?

01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:53.560
So, uh, uh, let's say, like.

01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:57.880
The thing is that, as a political
doctrine, the Enlightenment

01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:01.880
proposes new political theories, new
political theories, in

01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:05.560
short, especially the theory of the
social contract, the

01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:08.560
discourse on the social contract and on
this kind of thing.

01:02:09.120 --> 01:02:14.640
So we are somewhat in the realm of
political history theory.

01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.000
Now, on the subject of whether I was
raising

01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:23.000
the issue of historical truth, I would

01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:27.000
like to recall something that Professor

01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.880
Mata said, which is that many novels are

01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.880
quite well documented.

01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:34.960
I mean, huh?

01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.960
Authors who write novels usually do their
research

01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:42.960
because many of them are multifaceted,
that is,

01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:48.760
they are what I call public writers, that
is, literary figures.

01:02:49.120 --> 01:02:53.120
They wrote about history, they were
involved in politics, they were very

01:02:53.120 --> 01:02:57.120
interested in scholarship, therefore, the
search for documents, although

01:02:57.120 --> 01:03:00.080
they did not dedicate themselves directly
to that, but they did appreciate it very

01:03:00.080 --> 01:03:01.600
much.

01:03:02.040 --> 01:03:06.040
So this type of author, uh, is somewhat
representative

01:03:06.040 --> 01:03:10.400
of what 19th-century culture is and
therefore, uh, uh, the.

01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:14.400
The novel, although logically it is a
literary

01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:18.400
exercise of, uh, of theatricalization,
uh,

01:03:18.400 --> 01:03:21.640
but it clearly has a component of

01:03:21.640 --> 01:03:24.640
historical documentation.

01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:26.360
Many of them did not.

01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:30.200
So that explains why they go from
historical study to novel writing, huh?

01:03:30.200 --> 01:03:32.120
Hmm.

01:03:32.200 --> 01:03:35.200
And why, for example, the figure of
Walter Scott?

01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:39.680
Well, it influences everyone, including
historians, even

01:03:39.680 --> 01:03:42.720
though they considered Walter to be a
novelist.

01:03:43.160 --> 01:03:44.160
They were very clear about that.

01:03:44.160 --> 01:03:48.160
But for example, here it is very clear
even Leopold Rank himself,

01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:52.160
who is supposed to be the quintessential
historian of the 19th

01:03:52.160 --> 01:03:56.160
century, the most accurate and academic
historian he had,

01:03:56.160 --> 01:03:59.960
was influenced, as he himself said, by
Walter Scott.

01:04:01.120 --> 01:04:03.560
Therefore, I don't know if he has
answered the question.

01:04:03.560 --> 01:04:05.160
Yes, yes, I must answer it.

01:04:05.160 --> 01:04:05.720
Thank you so much.

01:04:05.720 --> 01:04:09.720
I believe that indeed, for novelists
there is a component,

01:04:09.720 --> 01:04:12.840
there has to be a background of truth.

01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:16.720
And then comes, from there comes the

01:04:16.720 --> 01:04:19.720
liberalization of the episodes. Mhm.

01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:23.720
Therefore, these types of works must
indeed be valued in

01:04:23.720 --> 01:04:28.080
the context of their time and cannot be
valued as if they were, eh.

01:04:28.160 --> 01:04:30.800
They must be seen in relation to
erudition and the culture of fame. A

01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:32.160
historical

01:04:32.160 --> 01:04:36.160
analysis of all these types of novels
must be undertaken, because otherwise,

01:04:36.160 --> 01:04:40.000
it is not understood why they are written
or what they are written for.

01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.640
Neither he nor to whom they are
addressed.

01:04:42.640 --> 01:04:46.120
They are aimed at an audience of notables
from educated classes.

01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:50.480
They are not aimed at the popular
classes, normally, uh, they are

01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:53.640
aimed, well, at what was the liberal
culture of that time.

01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:57.800
It's the culture, let's say, of one based
on a

01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:01.800
series of cultural platforms that were
being

01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.440
created and that only mhm could access.

01:05:05.680 --> 01:05:08.920
Well, those, those educated people who
could normally

01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:11.920
study for a high school diploma, mhm,
mhm.

01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:13.800
And from there, the university.

01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:17.800
In fact, uh, university was considered
the continuation

01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:22.480
of high school and therefore the arrival
at culture.

01:05:24.720 --> 01:05:26.560
Thank you so much.

01:05:26.560 --> 01:05:30.560
Professor Mata has his hand raised very
briefly, following Professor

01:05:30.560 --> 01:05:34.560
Pau Samar's intervention, I was reminded
of a novel like Doña Isabel

01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:38.560
de Solís, by Francisco Martínez de la
Rosa, where precisely, the

01:05:38.560 --> 01:05:42.560
entire novelistic apparatus is surrounded
by notes, appendices,

01:05:42.560 --> 01:05:46.800
etc. It would be like the extreme of
erudition, wouldn't it?

01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:48.280
And it would have to be studied.

01:05:48.280 --> 01:05:52.280
Obviously, each author, or even within
each author, may have

01:05:52.280 --> 01:05:55.560
different levels of historical
documentation, and so on.

01:05:55.960 --> 01:05:59.800
Well, there are historical novels, there
are historical

01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:02.800
adventure novels, to use Ferreras'
terminology.

01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:07.400
Hmm, you can't put everything in the same
bag, can you?

01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:11.440
Those hundreds of titles that accumulate,
to say something,

01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:15.680
among 1,830,870, when Pérez Galdós begins
to write.

01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:20.240
Well, mmm, that needs some clarification.

01:06:20.240 --> 01:06:22.760
Well, that's what we're trying to do,
isn't it?

01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:24.760
Study each author, study each work.

01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.760
Nothing more than that.

01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:30.760
Thank you very much, Carlos.

01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:31.880
Any further questions?

01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:33.560
Shall we close?

01:06:33.560 --> 01:06:36.080
I don't know if I have time to say one
last, last thing.

01:06:36.080 --> 01:06:41.800
So, Javier, that's in relation to Scott's
influence in Spain, huh?

01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:44.440
Well, precisely what my latest
publication does is question that

01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:45.800
traditional

01:06:45.800 --> 01:06:50.320
discourse that he is the most influential
author in the novel of those years, huh?

01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:54.320
Not because there weren't novels
influenced by Scott, because there were,

01:06:54.320 --> 01:06:58.320
but because I think that the most
interesting novels of that whole period

01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:02.320
from 1830 onwards are precisely those
that deviated the most from Scott,

01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:06.320
which are probably the least recognized
by your critics of that style who,

01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:09.680
those who deviated from Scott, directly
rejected him, as in the case of Rafael de

01:07:09.680 --> 01:07:11.360
Salamanca.

01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:14.520
There are quite a few, there are quite a
few, and they are not few.

01:07:14.520 --> 01:07:17.160
The only thing is that traditional
historiographical narratives within the

01:07:17.160 --> 01:07:18.520
history of literature

01:07:18.520 --> 01:07:21.160
have generally privileged the authors who
were indeed influenced by Scott, who were

01:07:21.160 --> 01:07:22.520
certainly the

01:07:22.520 --> 01:07:25.280
majority, but the fact that they were the
majority does not mean that they are the

01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.680
most interesting.

01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:30.960
I think that if we are governed by
criteria of literary quality, of literary

01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:34.960
interest, there is a whole literature yet
to be discovered in the field of

01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:38.960
novels that was done practically outside
of Scott, even in the field of the

01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:42.960
historical novel, starting with Ramiro
Conde de Lucena de Salamanca, in

01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.920
whose prologue Scott's style was rejected
because the author did not like it.

01:07:47.000 --> 01:07:51.000
And well, continuing through Castellanos
de Losada and many others, until we

01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:54.040
get to Fernández González himself, who is
nothing like Scott's

01:07:54.040 --> 01:07:57.040
style, practically in the version I
wanted to give you.

01:07:57.440 --> 01:07:59.960
The fact that it's mentioned doesn't
negate the fact that there are a lot of

01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:01.240
novels that are

01:08:01.240 --> 01:08:04.240
early imitations of Scott, but there are
also just as many that are not.

01:08:07.720 --> 01:08:10.720
Thank you very much, Javier.

01:08:11.640 --> 01:08:12.160
Very brief.

01:08:12.160 --> 01:08:15.440
Finally, just one point, a couple of
comments.

01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:19.880
Professor Mata, you say that these
19th-century works,

01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:23.880
these novels, must be valued in relation
to the history

01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:27.880
known at the time, the history that
exists there, and that

01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:32.200
this must be valued. But it is often
difficult, isn't it?

01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:36.360
Does that mean we also need to thoroughly
study the historical moment, the

01:08:36.360 --> 01:08:39.360
present, and how everything we've been
doing here is going? Right?

01:08:39.360 --> 01:08:43.360
The philosophical aspect, the historical
aspect—that

01:08:43.360 --> 01:08:48.000
requires a very high level of educational
sophistication. Right?

01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:52.680
Uh. And on the other hand, you say that
many times it is necessary to

01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:55.680
remember that these authors are
historical novelists.

01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:59.880
Sure, they are historical novelists, but
often that

01:08:59.880 --> 01:09:03.880
fiction, or that fictionalized novel, or
that fictionalized

01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:07.120
history tells us more about history than
what

01:09:07.120 --> 01:09:10.120
the historians themselves tell us.

01:09:10.120 --> 01:09:13.120
And regarding the teacher.

01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:18.000
Mario, in relation to what they were also
talking about regarding caciquismo,

01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:20.640
etc., I think that we also have to
situate ourselves many times, we are

01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:22.000
continually

01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:26.000
exceptionalizing the history of Spain
with concepts like caciquismo.

01:09:26.280 --> 01:09:30.280
Caciquismo is nothing other than, as the
professor has

01:09:30.280 --> 01:09:34.280
said, a matter of political power, etc.,
totally

01:09:34.280 --> 01:09:38.280
compatible with other forms of
caciquismo. In other

01:09:38.280 --> 01:09:42.000
places it is called political
clientelism, and it

01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:45.000
has always manifested itself in a certain
way.

01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.160
And on the other hand, I would like to
ask the professor two

01:09:48.160 --> 01:09:51.160
very brief questions. Let's move on to
the first one.

01:09:51.160 --> 01:09:51.880
Are there any?

01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:57.520
Do you know of any women who were
historians in the 19th century?

01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:02.040
And a second question, huh?

01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:06.040
In your opinion, as a specialist, who is
the first fully-fledged historian?

01:10:06.320 --> 01:10:09.320
that.

01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:13.600
Huh? Do you think it could be in the 19th
century, that

01:10:13.600 --> 01:10:18.120
is, the first fully-fledged historian of
historiography?

01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:19.240
Spanish.

01:10:19.240 --> 01:10:23.240
And finally, that delay in Spanish
historiography

01:10:23.240 --> 01:10:27.240
in the construction of histories of
Spain, or I don't

01:10:27.240 --> 01:10:32.760
know, of the History of Spain, in the
professionalization of history.

01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:33.840
It's true, it's not true.

01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:38.920
Despite everything you've pointed out,
nothing more, thank you.

01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:42.440
Well, uh, uh, women. I don't know, I

01:10:42.440 --> 01:10:45.440
don't know any women historians.

01:10:45.440 --> 01:10:47.920
Okay, uh, uh.

01:10:47.920 --> 01:10:51.920
Well, we also must not take into account
that on the platforms, let's say

01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:55.240
at the Ateneo, the Academy of History,
the Academy of Moral

01:10:55.240 --> 01:10:58.240
and Political Sciences, in short, there
were women.

01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:03.600
So I say, mmm, I don't think there was
one.

01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:07.400
As for the hmmm question of who was, if
there was

01:11:07.400 --> 01:11:10.400
one, the first one installed in full.

01:11:10.920 --> 01:11:14.920
Hmm, I think that, uh, the historians,

01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:18.920
uh, let's say, uh, from the end of

01:11:18.920 --> 01:11:23.640
the 19th century are historians, uh?

01:11:24.320 --> 01:11:29.160
Much more so if they abandon
philosophical history, huh?

01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:33.040
For a more positivist type of history,

01:11:33.040 --> 01:11:36.040
even more based on documentation, huh?

01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:40.760
And less concerned with, shall we say,
more general issues. Hmm.

01:11:41.280 --> 01:11:45.280
So it depends on what we understand by a
full historian; we couldn't

01:11:45.280 --> 01:11:49.280
say that he bothered Fuente, who was the
first author to write the

01:11:49.280 --> 01:11:53.920
first general history of Spain in the
19th century, the most important one.

01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:56.200
He was a consummate historian. Mhm.

01:11:56.200 --> 01:12:00.200
But we could also say that authors from
the

01:12:00.200 --> 01:12:03.440
late 19th century mmm mmm were and.

01:12:03.440 --> 01:12:06.080
And one detail must be taken into
account, which is that the

01:12:06.080 --> 01:12:07.440
professionalization

01:12:07.440 --> 01:12:12.040
of historiography begins precisely at the
end of the 19th century in Spain.

01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:16.920
As for whether there was a setback or
progress in

01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:20.920
the 19th century, uh, let's say, uh, it
all depends

01:12:20.920 --> 01:12:24.920
on the origins of the Enlightenment,
right? French

01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:28.920
historiography was indeed ahead because
it was a

01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:32.920
historiography that was from a much more,
much more

01:12:32.920 --> 01:12:36.400
open, much richer Enlightenment, uh?

01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:39.680
And I believe it is the only
historiography that was ahead of the

01:12:39.680 --> 01:12:41.200
Spanish one.

01:12:41.200 --> 01:12:45.200
The others were more or less quite
similar because they were

01:12:45.200 --> 01:12:49.200
all national histories, national
episodes, studies of

01:12:49.200 --> 01:12:53.200
episodes of national events, and a
scholarship that was

01:12:53.200 --> 01:12:57.160
forming the heritage, the cultural
heritage of each country.

01:12:57.520 --> 01:13:00.840
Therefore, I do not see that in the 19th
century there were major

01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.840
differences between one historiography
and another.

01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:05.600
Quite a few appeared.

01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:09.600
When the changes and differences occur,

01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:12.880
it is from the end of the 19th

01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:15.880
century and the 20th century.

01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.240
In my opinion.

01:13:18.240 --> 01:13:21.360
Well, for today I think it's been about

01:13:21.360 --> 01:13:24.360
two morning sessions in the afternoon.

01:13:24.360 --> 01:13:26.160
It certainly has been. Very interesting
indeed.

01:13:26.160 --> 01:13:30.160
I believe there has been room for
reflection, which is always a

01:13:30.160 --> 01:13:34.160
fundamental component of this type of
conference and is something

01:13:34.160 --> 01:13:39.400
that undoubtedly adds value, as has all
the participation that has taken place.

01:13:39.400 --> 01:13:43.400
We greatly appreciate the physical and

01:13:43.400 --> 01:13:47.400
online presence of the participants,

01:13:47.400 --> 01:13:50.560
speakers and attendees, and also

01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:53.560
through the broadcast on RJ TV.

01:13:54.280 --> 01:13:58.280
And well, we invite you to the opening

01:13:58.280 --> 01:14:02.280
conference tomorrow at 9:00 and simply,

01:14:02.280 --> 01:14:06.240
thank you and wish you a good afternoon.

01:14:06.240 --> 01:14:07.800
Thank you very much. Thank you.